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Calvin Who Ism?

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gooberak
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I've seen so much about Calvinism lately in various places from sermons to other discussion forums. There's even a "hyper" Calvinism ... thing.

While I do understand that others who have gone before us can offer a lot of insight, this guy is really starting to bug me! Who does he think he is? Or should I say, who do "others" think he is? This is where my real problem with Calvinism lies. I myself never knew the guy. I can't really say what he would think of all this attention he gets in theological circles. But if he was anywhere near as wonderful as some people seem to think he is, anywhere near as godly and obedient to the Lord as so many seem to accredit him with - I have no doubt; it would bother him, too.

It bothered Paul when he was in a similar place:

1Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1Cr 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

1Cr 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

I do admit that I really don't know the first thing about Calvin - or his "ism". Maybe I should be grateful that I don't. I've seen people so stuck on this guy that it borders on idolatry.

Where do they think HE got HIS information / insight from? And if it was good enough for him, why isn't it good enough for us? Obviously no matter how brilliant or insightful he was, the beginning and end of what made him godly or gave him any understanding or wisdom at all, was God Himself, and Scripture itself...

I just don't like it. What if John Calvin, and everything that he taught just.. disappeared? Then what? Would we be lost? I don't rightly think so. Not as long as God's Holy Word remains. God did not "need" John Calvin. John Calvin needed God. Just like you, and just like me.

So - why do "we" need John Calvin, and his "ism"? :-)

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GAK
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11th August 2008 11:18 a.m.
paross
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AK, The thing about Calvin is his faithfulness to Scripture. What people learn when they actually read what Calvin wrote (most people with opinions about the man have never actually read his books) is that he was really good at explaining biblical Christianity. The translations are a little dated for today's readers, but when a serious effort to read him is engaged the beauty of his language and explanations is discovered. People are wowed.

One of the things that serious Christians learn is that we are not alone. Other serious Christians have gone before us and have had a lot of helpful things to say about faithfulness and God's Word. We stand on their shoulders and are better Christians ourselves for it. So, I wouldn't want to lose Calvin's contribution because it has been so helpful to me.

But you are right that Calvin's "ism" is a dangerous thing. We sinners can make idols of anything.

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11th August 2008 12:05 p.m.
gooberak
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Thanks for your response paross. Much appreciated.

"he was really good at explaining biblical Christianity."

 Nothing at all wrong with that. Still, God is better at it. :-)

 "People are wowed."

Yeah. That's what concerns me. I guess I'd much rather people were wowed by Scripture and the God who imparted whatever wisdom and knowledge that Calvin ended up with. I'm sure there are some mature believers who are able to be wowed by Calvin and others like him whilest never leaving the truth that without God, Calvin too was nothing. My concern would be more toward those who are not ready to (safely) venture off into such things where apparently idolization is a real danger, without shortly thereafter considering themselves and declaring themselves to be "Calvinists".  Myself included! I don't know that any of us are "idolization-proof" - It can happen.

"One of the things that serious Christians learn is that we are not alone. Other serious Christians have gone before us and have had a lot of helpful things to say about faithfulness and God's Word. We stand on their shoulders and are better Christians ourselves for it. So, I wouldn't want to lose Calvin's contribution because it has been so helpful to me."

 Absolutely and I totally agree that there is much, much to be gained from those who have gone before us. I think the danger lies in that not "all" who have gone before us even came close to getting it right even if they thought they had - and we sure don't want to be learning from them wherever that is true! So how could we even know whose shoulders "to" stand on, without our "reliance" being in God's Word/s alone?

I very much appreciate your choice of words regarding Calvin's "contribution". This is a right view not just of Calvin, but of anyone who has ever written anything at all about the Lord. They are contributions. We can and should learn from those who have not left sound doctrine who have gone before us.

Sound doctrine however, takes us right back to God's Word alone. Contribution is a right term because infallibility does not exist outside of God's Word and outside of Jesus Christ while we are still in the flesh. Every contribution must - must must must be taken back to Scripture itself to be judged right and true. A lot of men have great wisdom given to them from the Lord. A lot of men have a ridiculously awesome way of explaining things that we do not understand. But only One has the full and complete Truth, and that is God Himself - the Word - Himself. If Calvin is fallible, it is impossible that he is 100 % correct about 100 % of the things he's ever said.

I know very well that you yourself are centered regarding the issue. But I still say this guy gets way more attention than he should by the majority. I think a lot of people have been wowed all the way into "duh". It's not good.

 

 

 

 

 

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GAK
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11th August 2008 13:41 p.m.
paross
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GAK, I prefer Ang,

You are correct. What about newbies in Christ? Can or should they read Calvin or Luther or Wesley? Or just concentrate on Scripture? My answer is definitely "Yes! Every day, in every way."

The insight that allows people to read Scripture productively and with understanding is NOT a function of intelligence, but of the power and presence of the Holy Spirit through regeneration. Sure, there is a lot to know and a lot to learn, and people who are new to it are... well, new.

Nonetheless, no Christian should look down on anyone because they are new to Christ. Rather, we should hold such people in great esteem. Of course, we should have greater esteem for our elders in the Lord. Christianity is not about being the first to get all of the answers right. It's about living the truth that God have given you. As you live what He has given you, He'll give more. But if you don't live what you already have, you can't deal with anymore, so the Lord doesn't give anymore.

The other thing to realize is that more people have gone astray with Scripture alone than have gone astray reading the great contributors to the faith. The reason that the great contributors are great is that... well, they're great. The Lord has greatly blessed them, and we can benefit from that blessing. Yet, we must differentiate between the great contributors and the popular contributors. Unfortunately there is an inverse relationship between what is popular and what is godly.

The best thing that a newbie can do is throw out the TV and start reading Christian literature. Find someone you trust and then trust him or her -- but not blindly. Keep an eye in the Book. Read the Bible, of course, but the Bible is a hard to to learn how to read. It took me at least 20 years to learn how to read the Bible. Maybe I'm just slow.

It is dangerous to read promiscuously, without discrimination, because, as you said, a lot of people in the past and the present have gotten it wrong. So, how do you know who to trust? That's a huge issue, and newbies don't know and probably can't know. I'd say that people need to learn to trust the Holy Spirit in their own lives -- and they do. But hoards of people who thought they were trusting the Holy Spirit weren't. So, how can a person know? It's a lot like knowing when you are "in love" and when you aren't. It's not actually all that easy.

I'd say that if the Holy Spirit doesn't convict you of your own sin and cut you to the heart (seriously offend your pre-Christian beliefs), it's not the Holy Spirit. Why? Because "the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do" (Gal 5:17). Did you get that? The Spirit is working to keep us from doing the things WE WANT to do. God is out to change who we think we are and what we think we want.

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14th August 2008 18:54 p.m.
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